Australia in the World

Ep. 152: Aussie reactions to Trump, & PRC warships; NZ-Cook Islands

It’s time to return to the news, and Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC returns to discuss three big stories that he’s been reporting on in recent weeks. First, what is the impact of Donald Trump on the foreign policy community in Australia? How is the government managing the tariffs and numerous other controversies, and will this become an election issue? Is there ballast developing around a “plan B”? Second, a group of People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) warships circumnavigated Australia in February, causing quite a stir. And third, New Zealand and Cook Islands have been a tense relationship in recent months with the latter’s relationship with Beijing central to the dispute.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Stephen Dziedzic, “What the Trump and Zelenskyy fallout means for Australian foreign policy”, ABC, 4 March 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-04/trump-zelenskyy-fallout-repercussions-australian-foreign-policy/105004636

Stephen Dziedzic, “Tariffs could be turning point in Albanese's 'no comment' strategy on Trump”, ABC, 12 March 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-12/tariffs-turning-point-albanese-response-trump/105043594

Andrew Greene and Stephen Dziedzic, “Intelligence chief says Chinese warship deployment designed to be 'provocative'”, ABC, 26 February 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-26/chinese-warship-deployment-designed-to-be-provocative/104982224

Jennifer Parker, “China’s expedition shows Australia must become a naval power”, Australian Financial Review, 23 February 2025: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/china-s-expedition-shows-australia-must-become-a-naval-power-20250222-p5le9k

Lim, D. J., & Colnaghi, W. B. (2024). "Strategically (in)secure and economically (in)vulnerable: Australia, New Zealand, and their relations with China". Australian Journal of International Affairs, 78(5), 600–613. https://doi.org/10.1080/10357718.2024.2406279

Stephen Dziedzic, and Kyle Evans “How passports and a deal with China have put New Zealand at odds with its former colony Cook Islands”, ABC, 8 February 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-08/cook-islands-new-zealand-relations-china-passports/104909718

The Last Dance (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80203144

Lady Gaga, Mayhem (album): https://open.spotify.com/album/2MHUaRi9OCyTN02SoyRRBJ

Ep. 151: Incoming govt brief, 2025 edition

While the calling of a federal election has been delayed by Tropical Cyclone Alfred, it must still happen in May, and so this episode the podcast offers its third “incoming government brief”: a document presented to the new (or returning) minister for each department, for the purpose of providing a descriptive overview of what the department does, and highlighting the most important issues facing that particular portfolio.

The Australia in the World Incoming Government Brief has four chapters:(1) A changed external environment, (2) Plausible futures and policy dilemmas, (3) Key commitments by political party, and (4) Miscellaneous. Above all, the central challenge for this document at this moment is simply how to describe the world Australia now finds itself in, and to frame the challenges the government will face, regardless of its partisan perspective.

No wonder this is probably the longest episode in the podcast's history!

Darren is joined by Richard Maude, who has appeared multiple times before, most recently in February 2024. Richard had a long career in government including serving as Director-General of the (then) Office of National Assessments, and Deputy Secretary in DFAT where, amongst other roles, he headed the whole-of-government taskforce supporting the preparation of the 2017 Foreign Policy White Paper. He was the inaugural Executive Director, Policy, the Asia Society Australia and is now a distinguished policy fellow at there.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Richard Maude (bio): https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/richard-maude

Incoming government brief for Senator the Hon Penny Wong, Minister for Foreign Affairs, May 2022: https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/dfat-foi-lex5624.pdf

Penny Wong, “National Press Club Address, Australian interests in a regional balance of power”, 17 April 2023: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/speech/national-press-club-address-australian-interests-regional-balance-power

Richard Maude, “Australia’s Indo-Pacific destiny up for grabs in a new world order”, Australian Financial Review, 11 March 2025: https://www.afr.com/world/asia/australia-s-indo-pacific-destiny-up-for-grabs-in-a-new-world-order-20250304-p5lgru

Anna Del Conte, Gastronomy of Italy [Revised Edition], 2013: https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9781862059580/gastronomy-of-italy-revised-edition/

Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy (tv series): https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/tv-series/stanley-tucci-searching-for-italy

Black Doves (tv series): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81682935

Ep. 150: Gutting USAID; a MAGA-friendly development policy?

One of the major casualties of Trump administration’s brazen efforts to reduce the size of the US federal government is its dismantling of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), including a wholesale funding freeze, shutting down the website, and recalling most staff from abroad. The impacts on the world are going to be severe and lasting, but there are many questions and uncertainties: what will be the short-term harm, how will the development sector survive in the medium term, and what will US development policy, and indeed development policy generally, look like over the longer term?

To discuss these issues Darren is once again joined by Bridi Rice, CEO of the Development Intelligence Lab in Canberra to talk through possible futures, what a “MAGA-friendly” development policy might look like, and whether development is simply the latest policy domain to see a convergence between the Trump worldview and that of China.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Bridi Rice (bio): https://www.devintelligencelab.com/team/bridi-rice

Hilltop Hoods (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/7dlqUnjoF2U2DkNDMhcgG4

Security Economics (podcast): https://open.spotify.com/show/1jdlbmzM5do3ijANi6NH0w (Spotify)

Ep. 149: The (geopolitical) loneliness of Australia

“The loneliness of Australia is going to be one of many fairly dramatic changes”, says David Rennie towards the end of this utterly absorbing episode.

On Wednesday 12 February I interviewed David Rennie in DFAT’s studio in Canberra. David was visiting Australia for the week, hosted by Asia Society Australia and supported by the National Foundation for Australia-China Relations. David is geopolitics editor at The Economist having recently returned to London after six years living in China as Beijing bureau chief. He launched the Chaguan column on China in that role and last November launched a new column on geopolitics for the newspaper, The Telegram. David joined The Economist in 2007 and in addition to London and Beijing has been based in Brussels and Washington in that time. He is the co-host of the excellent Drum Tower podcast, launched in late 2022.

Our discussion is not about Australia at all, really, but about China and the US under Donald Trump. Rival great powers, but perhaps with an increasingly converging worldview which portends, according to David, loneliness for Australia. This is one of the podcast’s most important episodes of the past few years and I think worth the time for all those interested in international affairs.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

David Rennie (bio): https://mediadirectory.economist.com/people/david-rennie/

The Economist, The Telegram (column): https://www.economist.com/topics/the-telegram

The Economist, Drum Tower (podcast): https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/drum-tower

Peter Varghese, “Trump’s Gaza grab shows America is no better than China”, Australian Financial Review, 6 February 2025: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/trump-s-gaza-grab-shows-america-is-no-better-than-china-20250206-p5la0x

Chappell Roan (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/7GlBOeep6PqTfFi59PTUUN  

Bobby Timmons Trio (Spotify page): https://open.spotify.com/artist/47jpbb07933jSiHmir7yda

Ep. 148: Canada/Mexico tariffs (Darren’s rapid reaction)

The Trump administration has announced 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico and a 10% tariff on China. Recorded only a handful of hours after the news broke, Darren offers a rapid reaction as a mini ‘lecture’ with his initial thoughts.

(Apologies for the change in sound quality early on, which reflect the speed at which we were trying to get this out!)

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Ep. 147: Early Trump days with Zack Cooper

We’re still only days into Donald Trump’s second term, but there is already a wealth of data to draw upon to update our models and expectations for how to think about his impact on the United States, US foreign policy, and the world. Joining Darren to talk through these early days is frequent guest Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute.  

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Euan Graham, “The Quad foreign ministers joint statement: short and sweet”, ASPI Strategist, 22 Jan 2025: https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-quad-foreign-ministers-joint-statement-short-and-sweet/

Yuval Levin, Trump Redux Begins, National Review, 21 Jan 2025: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/trump-redux-begins/

Ezra Klein Show, “MAGA’s big tech divide” (interview with James Pogue), 28 Jan 2025: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/28/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-james-pogue.html

James Pogue, “Steve Bannon Has Called His “Army” to Do Battle—No Matter Who Wins in November”, Vanity Fair, 9 Oct 2024: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/steve-bannon-nato-world-order

James Pogue, “How Long Can the Alliance Between Tech Titans and the MAGA Faithful Last?”, New York Times, 18 Jan 2025: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/opinion/donald-trump-tech-musk-bannon.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rE4.j9zE.VS5n0pOxgHg_&smid=url-share

Ep. 146: Darren, on anything and everything

On the eve of Donald Trump’s second inauguration, one of the podcast’s editors, Corbin Duncan, interviews Darren in a “ask me anything” format, asking both his own questions and those submitted by friends of the podcast. How did Darren come to studying economic security and is there a framework for practising it? Are we returning to a world of spheres of influence? Is foreign interference being normalised? How is the ‘pivot to Asia’ going? Have we reached peak democracy? Who will be the geopolitical winners of decarbonisation? Can academics influence foreign policy and are they self-censoring?

It is a very wide-ranging conversation!

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research, interviewing and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Eliot Chen, “Does Washington Have China Groupthink?”, The Wire China, 5 January 2025: https://www.thewirechina.com/2025/01/05/does-washington-have-china-groupthink/

Arthur C. Brooks (personal website): https://arthurbrooks.com/

Rob Henderson, Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class (Gallery Books, 2024): https://www.amazon.com.au/Troubled-Memoir-Foster-Family-Social/dp/1982168536

The Day of the Jackal (TV Series): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Jackal_(TV_series)

Ep. 145: A conversation about power

In the past few months Darren has been teaching his elective undergraduate course, Power and Influence in World Politics (POLS2136) at ANU. This year, he has grappled with the impact of Donald Trump’s re-election, and what it signifies for how power will be accumulated and wielded in the future. Remember, Trump’s core critique of the Biden Administration was weakness – so presumably Trump plans to show us strength. Does that mean America can be more ‘powerful’, or will the result actually be the opposite? And Australia’s deals with PNG and Nauru this month illustrate how far Australia has come in exercising power and influence in recent years.

Hervé Lemahieu and Susannah Patton of the Lowy Institute in Sydney join Darren for a conversation about power.  Hervé is Lowy’s Director of Research and Susannah the Director of the Southeast Asia Program and Project Lead for Lowy’s Asia Power Index, which Hervé first developed in 2018. Who better to have a conversation with about power, what it is, how we measure it, and how the forces that have given us Trump, or perhaps Trump himself, might require is to reassess how we conceive of power in world politics into the future.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Hervé Lemahieu (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/herve-lemahieu

Susannah Patton (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/susannah-patton

Lowy Institute Asia Power Index, 2024 Edition: https://power.lowyinstitute.org/

Susannah Patton and Hervé Lemahieu, “Asia has no hegemon: But U.S.-Chinese Bipolarity Is Good for America and the Region”, Foreign Affairs, 13 September: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/asia-has-no-hegemon-us-chinese-bipolarity-good-america-region

Mitch McConnell, “The Price of American Retreat: Why Washington Must Reject Isolationism and Embrace Primacy”, Foreign Affairs, Jan/Feb 2025: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/price-american-retreat-trump-mitch-mcconnell

Join or die (Netflix documentary): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81746809

Wicked (2024 Film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_(2024_film) 

Ep. 144: Deals with Nauru and PNG

Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC reported this past week on two significant deals the Australian government struck with the governments of Nauru and Papua New Guinea. He joins Darren to talk through how geopolitics, development, banking and finance and, yes, now the sport of rugby league, are all mixing together as Canberra sails into relatively uncharted waters in its foreign policy.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia inks treaty with Nauru locking out growing Chinese influence”, ABC News, 9 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-09/australia-nauru-treaty-locks-out-china/104702002

Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia, PNG unveil deal for Papua New Guinea team to enter NRL in 2028”, ABC News, 12 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-12/png-australia-unveil-new-nrl-team/104716250

Stephen Dziedzic, “Friends and partners weigh up Canberra's 'relentless' Pacific push”, ABC News, 14 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-14/canberras-relentless-pacific-push/104723598

Pat Conroy, TV Interview, Sarah Ferguson, ABC 7.30 (transcript), 12 December: https://ministers.dfat.gov.au/minister/pat-conroy/transcript/tv-interview-sarah-ferguson-abc-730

APRA Chair John Lonsdale’s speech to the European Australian Business Council, 25 November 2024: https://www.apra.gov.au/news-and-publications/apra-chair-john-lonsdale%E2%80%99s-speech-to-european-australian-business-council

Stephen Dziedzic, “Treasurer says government in 'final stages of negotiations' with ANZ to maintain bank's Pacific presence”, ABC News, 11 November: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-11/government-striking-deal-to-maintain-anz-bank-pacific-presence/104587514

Ep. 143: Thinking through Trump 2.0

As the world begins to think through the implications of a second Trump presidential term, Darren is joined once again by Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute to talk through what we do know, and what we don’t, about the coming storm. What was Trump’s basic critique of the Biden administration's foreign policy? What are the competing camps on foreign policy inside Trumpworld? And what should Australia do, about AUKUS, the Quad, and the alliance generally? Does Kevin Rudd’s position remain tenable? There’s a lot to discuss, albeit with the caveat that we do not know much for certain at this point!

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Zack Cooper (bio): https://www.aei.org/profile/zack-cooper/

Zack Cooper, Tides of Fortune: The Rise and Decline of Great Militaries (2025, Yale University Press): https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300268676/tides-of-fortune/

Net Assessment (podcast): https://warontherocks.com/category/podcasts/net-assessment/

Tanner Greer, “The Battle to Shape Trump’s China policy”, Foreign Policy Research Institute, 29 October 2024: https://www.fpri.org/article/2024/10/the-battle-to-shape-trumps-china-policy/

Ezra Klein Show (podcast), Vivek Ramaswamy Has a Different Vision for Trumpism From JD Vance, 29 October 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-vivek-ramaswamy.html